Author Topic: Common Words  (Read 8776 times)

mymermaid

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Common Words
« on: April 17, 2007, 10:40:09 PM »
I am sure that it says somewhere what forms the "common" words .... but I've been through the forum and can't find anything.
How or where is the common words list? Who decides which word is "common"?
I have only one more word on the Standard today before I can get my rosette .... HELP MEEEEEE.

Thanks
Mandy

biggerbirdbrain

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2007, 10:58:04 PM »
Alan, of course, is the ultimate authority in this venue, Mandy, but from what I can tell, obscure words are archaic forms for the most part, as well as specialized medical terms and such.

But, you're right. There are examples such as "eluder" -- one who eludes, which came up last Friday, yet the word elude itself, is probably considered common (it was not in the puzzle that same day). Also, "nuder" was not shown as a common word, but it's root, nude, (also not in there) would also come up as common. So, I'm also a bit stumped.

Oh, Chi-master, enlighten us!

 ???
3-B
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 11:35:54 PM by biggerbirdbrain »

bobbi

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 04:25:47 AM »
Umm, how can you be 'nuder'  ??? Now there's a puzzle to ponder  ;) Like being a little pregnant or slightly dead.  :-\

Alan W

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 12:22:32 PM »
As for who gets to decide, that's easy - it's me. (Although I'm always willing to receive advice and suggestions.)

As for the criteria used in labelling a word "common", that's probably a bit vaguer. I think on different occasions I've probably given various explanations of the "standard" or "common" word list.

I suppose what I'm really aiming for is to flag the words that most players are likely to recognise. When you look at the solution and see the last few "common" words that eluded you [I suppose we could call them "eluders"], I want you to say, "Of course, how stupid of me!", rather than, "Huh! What the dickens do those words mean?!"

Of course, the problem is that every person knows a different set of words, so there's no way a "perfect" classification of words can be achieved.

Problems are likely to be of two kinds, similar to the "Type 1" and "Type 2" errors in statistical analysis.

1. The player is desperately seeking the last common word, and suddenly thinks of, say, "nuder". She plays it, and it's accepted, but, to her disgust, it's not counted as a common word.

2. On another occasion, the player looks at the solution the next day and sees that the word she didn't find was, say, "irenic" - a word she's never heard of. And so, she's cheesed off.

If all the problems were of type 1, it would probably signify that the common word list should be expanded. If all the problems were of type 2, it would probably mean the common word list should be pruned. However, if both kinds of problem crop up fairly often, it might mean the word classification is about right. That's my theory, anyway!

My impression is that, if anything, the "common" classification currently includes a few words that possibly shouldn't be there. What does everyone else think?

Would people like the common word list to be made available in some form on the Web site? I could do that if people thought it would be useful or interesting. But I would hate to think people would be burning the midnight oil studying the list, and trying to memorise it.

With regard to the specific questions raised by 3-B, about "eluder" and "nuder", quite a large percentage of the words in our full list are inflections and derivations of other words. But often, I feel the derived words are much more rarely used than the base word. So, a word is not automatically classed as common just because it is derived from a common word.

For example, our list includes the following words derived from "abet":

  • ABET
  • abetment
  • abettal
  • ABETTED
  • abetter
  • ABETTING
  • ABETTOR

The three words shown in lower case are classed as rare, the others as common.

The British National Corpus contains 77 usage examples for "elude" but none for "eluder". It has 408 examples using the word "nude", but only one with "nuder":

Quote
Will Jeff Koons do for Sgarbi what he did for that other member of the Italian Parliament, the even nuder Cicciolina?�


(We still don't really know how you can be nuder - possibly the other person was only partially unclad, not truly nude at all, but the use of nuder is valid in a jocular context.)

So, I'm reasonably satisfied that these two words don't belong in the common list.

But none of the above comments should be taken to imply that I think there's nothing wrong with the existing word classification. There are thousands of words involved, and I've had to make a lot of snap judgements, so there are bound to be errors and inconsistencies. So don't hesitate to keep raising questions.
Alan Walker
Creator of Lexigame websites

mymermaid

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 03:31:54 PM »
Well I have just found out what my missing "common" word is ... and I could kick myself ....
How could I have missed SEWAGE.... grrrrrr. I am so cross with myself.

No - Alan - don't put the list on the web ... and keep on making your snap decisions. I think we all agree that you are doing a great job.

Mandy

bobbi

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 08:49:14 PM »
Alan, I like all your academic pondering and pontificating, but you still don't geddit.
How can you possibly be nuder than nude? You either are or you are not. There's no possible intensifier there. Surely nuder's not a word because the concept is ridiculous or redundant or something  ???
bobbi (who just loves to split hairs  :))

biggerbirdbrain

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 10:05:56 PM »
Bobbi,

That's so hilarious!   :D  Your logic is impeccable, but, whoever said that English, whether the Aussi, British or American variety, is ever really logical anyway. We take our vocabulary from so many other languages, it's impossible to regulate or standardize. And, of course, there must have been someone who thought if there was a rude, then there's ruder; if there's nude, then there must be a nuder.

Taking one step further, if there's rudest, then there must be a nudest! Whaddya think about that ridiculous proposition?  ;)

Cheers,
3-B

bobbi

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 04:15:41 AM »
Well 3-B, they could have competitions at nudist colonies, the prizewinner being the nudest.  :D Wonder what sort of criteria the judges could use? Naturally, they would make their final selection from the nudier contestants.  ;) The disappointed losers might skulk off to put themelves in an unnude state (nudeless  ??? denuded now that's a word but the context's wrong ???) Going to stop now. After some consolation prizes they might renude themselves. Really going to stop, promise.

biggerbirdbrain

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Re: Common Words
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 06:50:07 AM »
Please don't make me say it. Please. I'm really fighting it. Oh, oh ... I really can't resist.

WARNING-SPOILER AHEAD!!

IT's RIGHT BELOW, SO CLOSE YOUR EYES!

HERE IT COMES!



....deadest


There, I got it out. Now I'm better.
Cheers,
3-b