Friday 7 April 7-by-many KVETCHES puzzle

[ridethetalk]

My full name is John Knox, so I am getting up on my pulpit to say:

SEEKETH – whosoever seeketh the way of the Lord… https://www.wordsense.eu/seeketh/

[cmh]

Whilst we are on the kvetches puzzle, may  I question how common this word is? I do know the word having read quite a lot of American novels many of which seemed to be set in New York and often they had Jewish characters.However, I would like to know what others think.

[Wibbly Bits]

Hi John. I've noticed over the years that the great majority of Olde Englishe words like that are rejected as unknown. There would be so many, that once you make an exception for one, then in theory Alan would have to allow all of them. It's probably best not to open Pandora's box. Doth thou agree(eth)?   

And CMH, I agree. Having watched many American sitcoms featuring Jewish characters, I have never come across the word 'kvetch'. When Mrs Bits asked if I had got the seed word yet, I said 'no', and commented that I bet it was a Yiddish word we hadn't heard of, and I was right. We have just binge watched 6 seasons of 'Somebody feed Phil'. He frequently jokes about the Jewish trait of complaining, and never once was that word used. Having said that, I note that more than 1 in 3 players got the word. I would hazard another guess that the vast majority of those were either Jewish, or living in the USA. It will all depend on the 'majority of well-read players' test. Over to you Alan. ( BTW, that Netflix series was very entertaining, and made us both re-think our overseas travel plans.)

[pat]

Not a word I know.

[jancsika]

I managed to drag up "kvetch" from some deep recess of my brain as a word I'd vaguely heard of. It's certainly not a common word in the UK.

[Maudland]

I’ve heard of it, probably from books or sitcoms. Don’t think I’ve ever heard it used in real life.

[yelnats]

KVETCH.

It took me a long time to drag it from the depths of my memory. An informal North American word of Yiddish origin unknown before the 1960s and now diminishing in use.

I vote for it to be classed as uncommon!

"Having said that, I note that more than 1 in 3 players got the word."

                        I assisted my sisters in finding it as I thought it unfair on them to find a Yiddish word.

[ridethetalk]

I’ve heard of it, probably from books or sitcoms. Don’t think I’ve ever heard it used in real life.

I *think* I may have heard it used on Northern Exposure - an American sitcom ostensibly based in Alaska about an indentured doctor from Queens...

[Maudland]

I’ve heard of it, probably from books or sitcoms. Don’t think I’ve ever heard it used in real life.

I *think* I may have heard it used on Northern Exposure - an American sitcom ostensibly based in Alaska about an indentured doctor from Queens...

I loved Northern Exposure! Watched it again on DVD recently (old school).

[Alan W]

We do accept some archaic forms of verbs. Witness seest and seeth in the same puzzle. My practice has been that when such a word is suggested, I'll allow it if it appears in the King James Bible or Shakespeare, on the grounds that players may have an awareness of such words.

Seeketh certainly is to be found in the KJV, 47 times according to a website search. I'll add it as a rare word, and seekest also.

[ridethetalk]

Thanks Alan... 

[Alan W]

Kvetch does indeed seem to have started appearing in English language texts only around the 1960s. Apparently the Dictionary of American Regional English in 1950 noted it as a term used in New York.

I hesitated about this one, despite the apparent unanimity of people's comments. The word is used quite often by journalists around the world, usually without any explanation thought to be needed. On the other hand, its meaning is often pretty obvious from the context. Here's Australian sports writer Greg Baum in The Age in May 2022:

It’s a footy ritual to kvetch about commentators...

And Fortune magazine in 2017:

Move over grumbling Londoners and kvetching New Yorkers, the four major cities with the world's most unaffordable housing are now all in Asia.

In the end I have to accept that the word is unknown to quite a few players. In future kvetch, kvetches, kvetching and kvetched will all be treated as rare words. So, no more grutching, OK?

[cmh]

  Thanks Alan.

[Maudland]

  Is grutch allowed, Alan - rare or common??

[Alan W]

Yes, rare.