Author Topic: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game  (Read 1623 times)

Jacki

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Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« on: January 23, 2021, 02:39:55 PM »
I was very surprised to see that ACTIONED was classed as rare. So many meetings seem to have items on the agenda to be actioned. Why is it rare?
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Ozzyjack

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2021, 04:42:09 PM »
Perhaps, Jacki, is because most people in the forum are old and no longer go to meetings. >:D

but seriously, if you had searched you would have found it had been discussed twice before,here and here, and is noted in Alan's word suggestion list as "open".
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 04:49:34 PM by Ozzyjack »
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mkenuk

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2021, 05:35:11 PM »

Jacki

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 07:57:08 PM »
You've probably already worked this out Mike, I never look at previous suggestions, conversations etc. If I feel a word warrants discussion, then let's have a fresh discussion. A combination of laziness, poor IT skills and the thought that as a relatively new player compared to you for example, maybe it's worth a relook. I don't want to read all the old conversations and I don't want to stop suggesting changes either. Sorry if that's annoying cause I know you're always helpful to a fault.
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pat

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2021, 08:49:52 PM »
I actually suggested this a few years ago

https://theforum.lexigame.com/index.php?topic=3137.msg50941#msg50941

Looking back at this thread and seeing that it discussed annoying (for some) expressions that had crept into the language, I was reminded of a couple of more recent ones. In the years since the Brexit referendum I've lost count of the number of times that people have been accused of 'kicking the can down the road', and in government Covid briefings the rather ridiculous 'baked in' has been used instead of the perfectly acceptable and more accurate 'factored in'.

Ozzyjack

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2021, 06:58:15 PM »
.
If I feel a word warrants discussion, then let's have a fresh discussion. I don't want to read all the old conversations.

Interesting.  Should people who have already done the work go to the trouble to repeat their arguments so that you can have an enlightened discussion?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 07:01:54 AM by Ozzyjack »
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Jacki

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 08:13:46 AM »
Good question - I don't go online and see if COD mentions it or all the amazing work that people use to support their arguments. I just post if I feel a word should be either rare or common based on my personal experience.
If forumites have had discussions before on the same word then maybe it should be considered again. After all, if someone raised it before I did presumably they also think it warrants attention.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great you have links to past topics etc and do lots of research.
For me I rarely press on the links (my IPad is very old and slow and I'm loath to get a new one so Chi is about all it can manage and email - I can't even get pictures up on it on some websites) so I confine myself to the forum and the games.
Please don't mistake my honesty for rudeness.
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Ozzyjack

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2021, 10:43:52 AM »
If forumites have had discussions before on the same word then maybe it should be considered again. After all, if someone raised it before I did presumably they also think it warrants attention.

I am not making any judgements.  But the other thing you should be aware of, if you are not already, is that Alan has a very long list of words that have been suggested to have their status changed.

On the Word List Suggestions page there is a row of buttons above the table: "Actioned", "Open", "Not accepted", "All". By default, "Actioned" is selected. If you click on "Open" or "All", you'll be able to see suggestions that have been made but not resolved.

 I have to warn you that my priority scale for word suggestions is:

1. Add word (no "plural" issue)
2. Make rare
3. Make common
4. Accept a word currently regarded as a plural, or treat as plural a word currently accepted

In the last two years only four words have been made common, so it may be a while still before I get around to considering this one.

This is the link to the word suggestions page  https://www.chi.lexigame.com/news/suggestions.html

This is the entry for "actioned"


Action            Word    Status    Date       Meaning    Forum link    Suggested by

Make common   actioned   Open   20 Jan 2018                                 mkenuk


Currently in the "open" list for consideration the words suggested by you are giblet, recopy, aioli, glary, sodomise, toff, glug, unmeant, passim, slangy, painterly, delft, comfit, wriest, confrere, arpeggio, palatine, doggo, polenta
Regards, Jack

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 11:12:29 AM »
From my point of view Jacki, I think it reasonable to suggest renewed discussion, especially after a 6 year hiatus from the quoted discussion.

New people, new ideas and perhaps a new outcome! Keep asking away Jacki, all of us are entitled to an enlightened discussion if we like.

Alan will certainly point out if he doesn’t want to consider it further.

PS I am surprised it is rare, but there you are.

Alan W

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 02:40:26 PM »
Short answer: actioned is rare because it's not so well-known in America.

Longer answer:

The rare classification of actioned was actually queried by MK twice, in 2015 and again in 2018. So, Jacki, you're not the only one who doesn't check for previous discussion of a topic! Also, both of these are listed as open suggestions on the Word List Suggestions page, which shows that I don't always check for previous discussions either.

The first time this was raised, I responded as follows:

Quote
I did a forum search to see if this word had been discussed before, only to find that the three previous occurrences of actioned were in relation to the Word List Suggestions page, where it is the label I put on one of the option buttons:



Which inevitably raises the question in my mind: is actioned so bad after all? More specifically, does the word meet a need? What alternative label could I have used - "Implemented", "Dealt with", "Processed to completion"? "Actioned" seems to convey the meaning most succinctly and clearly.

In any case, the word seems to be used widely enough that it ought to be made common. The only reservation I have is that it seems to be used much less widely in the US than elsewhere (notwithstanding the complaints one can find online that it is yet another Americanism polluting the Queen's English).

The Global Web-based English Corpus shows this usage distribution among English-speaking countries:



It looks like Kiwis use the word about twenty times as much as Americans! But this is not the only data source that indicates the word is little used in the US. The Corpus of Contemporary American English, which has texts from 1990 to 2012, has only one instance of actioned, and that is referring to "short-actioned rifles", so not the same sense as the business usage.

On the other hand, the British National Corpus, which goes up to 1993 only, has 26 instances of actioned. Amusingly, many of these are from an undated document titled New OED procedures documents. E.g. "...the forms should be actioned in ascending numerical order on the request serial number..."

The New York Times index reveals only one example of actioned used in the sense of "took action on", and that was in a direct quote (from Secretary of State John Kerry). This makes me suspect that use of action as a verb might be prohibited in the newspaper's style guide.

It's also noteworthy that most dictionaries do not have this meaning for action, including, in their online manifestations at any rate, major US dictionaries such as Merriam Webster, American Heritage, Random House and Webster's New World College Dictionary. Yet the British Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary includes action as a verb meaning "to do something to deal with a particular problem or matter". This meaning is in other British dictionaries also.

It's easy enough to find examples of actioned in US publications, but they are mostly specialized works, in management or technology.

So help me out, American forumites. How common is actioned to you?

The two responses from American forumites were from rogue_mother and birdy. RM noted that action is not recognized as a verb in either the Merriam-Webster or American Heritage dictionaries, probably the two best known dictionaries published in the US. (That is still the case, at least in their online dictionaries.) Nevertheless she said actioned did not strike her as uncommon. Birdy said she didn't remember seeing action as a verb.

Seeking to update my usage information I've now looked in another large corpus broken down by country, the News on the Web corpus. The pattern was very similar to that shown in the chart I posted in 2015: usage in Britain about 8 times as much as in the US; usage in Australia even more frequent, and in New Zealand more frequent still. In Time and the New York Times actioned seems to be used only in direct quotes from interviewees or, in one case in Time, an article written by an Australian journalist.

So it seems the word actioned has not caught on in America to anything like the extent it has elsewhere. Nevertheless many people decry it as an Americanism. A 2012 Daily Mail article, "Don't talk garbage!...or why American words are mangling our English":

Quote
American-English is a compound language — a language in kit form. Any word can perform any function... 'I've actioned it,'...

Or a commenter on the BBC website in 2000:

Quote
Things can not be "ovened", "fridged", "actioned" or even "trialled". Can we leave these Americanisms where they belong, over the other side of the Atlantic

Or the Indian magazine Scroll in 2017:

Quote
Nouns as verbs seem more common in US English and are entering our usage: "impacted", "actioned" and other such noun-verbs, which make the purists squirm.

In conclusion, I'm not convinced that actioned is commonly known in north America, so I think it should continue to be classed as rare, as per our definition. Actioning is also rare, and will remain so.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 02:56:28 PM by Alan W »
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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2021, 06:21:01 PM »
By this definition, shouldn't colour also be classified as rare???

 :o :o :o or would this be putting the feline amongst the Columba livia domesticae???
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2dognight

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2021, 07:07:44 PM »
probably >:D

Ozzyjack

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2021, 07:23:17 PM »
By this definition, shouldn't colour also be classified as rare???

Could I ask by what logic?
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Jacki

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2021, 09:09:44 PM »
Thank you Alan
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ridethetalk

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Re: Actioned in yesterday's CAPTIONED challenge game
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2021, 11:06:03 AM »
By this definition, shouldn't colour also be classified as rare???

Could I ask by what logic?

Ozzyjack, I've just reread the definition - colour is "known", just not commonly "used" in the US - my bad...
The greenest watt ever produced is the one you never use. Playing as jk1956 & John is my name.
When we come out of the Covid-19 crisis, we need to make sure recovery efforts address the Climate Crisis (which can't be solved using social distancing!)