Author Topic: Northeast challenge game  (Read 2496 times)

Jacki

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Northeast challenge game
« on: June 17, 2019, 08:01:24 AM »
In yesterday's challenge I tried OTHERS again! I find Chihuahua confusing sometimes because of the plurals. I've never played plurals before Chi. And I just keep putting in OTHERS only to be rejected. HERS is accepted. Couldn't OTHERS be used in a sentence such as "The others stayed behind."?
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Morbius

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 09:01:36 AM »
In the example you give, others is a plural.  I can't think of an example where others isn't a plural.  Hers is a possessive, so therefore acceptable in Chi.  Similarly theirs, yours and ours are also acceptable because they are possessives not plurals.  
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 09:18:15 AM by Morbius »

mkenuk

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2019, 09:19:21 AM »
The short answer is that others is a plural pronoun form.
Think of a sentence like
 'There's room in the car for you, me, the kids and one other.'
That could be changed to
 'There's room in the car for you, me, the kids and two others.'

What we are doing is making the pronoun plural by adding s - not allowed in Chi.

hers on the other hand is not the plural of her. They are different types of word - possessive pronoun and possessive advective respectively.

'This is my book and those are her books.' (possessive adjective)
'This book is mine and those books are hers.' (possessive pronoun)

her / hers is similar to your / yours, our / ours and their / theirs/



Ozzyjack

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2019, 11:02:34 AM »
I dips me lid in admiration, M&M

Regards, Jack

Jacki

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2019, 06:55:22 PM »
Thanks everyone
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yelnats

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2019, 08:09:58 PM »
Quote
'This is my book and those are her books.' (possessive adjective)
'This book is mine and those books are hers.' (possessive pronoun)


Is it this groups' book or is it the others'?

I'm not sure this is correct grammar, but over to the experts.

mkenuk

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2019, 09:19:02 PM »
No expert, Yelnats, I leave that to people like Prof. Michael Swan, whose Practical English Usage has been my friend for many, many years now!
You're not alone in this however. I doubt if one English speaker in twenty knows how to use apostrophes correctly.

"This group's book(s)" means "The book(s) of this group".
 ( one group = apostrophe +'s')

"These groups' book(s)" means "The book(s) of these groups"
 ( more than one group = 's' + apostrophe)

To go back to your original sentence, I think it should read 'Is it this group's book or the other's?'

pat

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 03:05:41 AM »
To go back to your original sentence, I think it should read 'Is it this group's book or the other's?'

Unless the book belongs to more than one other group of course.

mkenuk

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 10:15:24 AM »
Quite right, Pat, which is why I said 'I think it should read......'

My reading of Yelnat's 'scenario' is that there is one book (ownership unknown) and there are two groups.
It somehow seems  more logical that there should be two groups, each group having one book.

If, however, there were more than two groups, then the sentence could read:

"Is it this group's book or the others'?" with the apostrophe coming after others.
or even
"Is it this group's book or one of the other's?" with the apostrophe coming before the s of others.
although this latter sentence adds words which are not in the original.

You pays your money.....

Incidentally, the only other pronoun I can think of which can take an s plural ending is one.

"I've broken my watch; I'll need to buy a new one."
"I've broken my glasses; I'll need to buy some new ones."

ones, however, is not accepted in Chi.


pat

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 06:58:39 PM »
Quite right, Pat, which is why I said 'I think it should read......'

My reading of Yelnat's 'scenario' is that there is one book (ownership unknown) and there are two groups.
It somehow seems  more logical that there should be two groups, each group having one book.

If, however, there were more than two groups, then the sentence could read:

"Is it this group's book or the others'?" with the apostrophe coming after others.
or even
"Is it this group's book or one of the other's?" with the apostrophe coming before the s of others.
although this latter sentence adds words which are not in the original.


I'm not convinced by that last one, Mike. In all of the examples, other is shorthand for other group, and others is shorthand for other groups.

The question is asking who the book belongs to (or perhaps I should say to 'to whom the book belongs'!): if there are only two groups, does it belong to this group or to the other group; if there are more than two groups, does it belong to this group or to the other groups? So I don't think inserting 'one of' makes any difference to where the apostrophe should go. We're talking about one of the other groups as an entity, not one of the other group's.

Therefore

"Does the book belong to this group or one of the other groups?"

becomes

"Is it this group's book or one of the others'?"

Further examples

"Is it this group's book or one of the other group's book?" (only two groups)
"Is it this group's book or one of the other groups' book?" (more than two groups)


I could of course be wrong - I frequently am!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 07:14:12 PM by pat »

mkenuk

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 09:33:48 PM »
Indeed, the more I look at it, the less sure I become of that last sentence!
The phrase one of the other's just doesn't look right!!


Tom

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2019, 10:49:46 AM »
The apostrophe, regrettably, is fast disappearing from English grammar. One glaring example, is street names. For example the road named after the 'Green' family is known as Greens Road - no apostrophe. My own road name has suffered the same fate. I always include the apostrophe but a problem arises in some online registrations which will not accept the apostrophe.

yelnats

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2019, 09:12:48 PM »
Thinking about it, I used apostrophes in the example whereas 'hers', 'theirs' etc. don't have them.

birdy

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2019, 11:48:18 AM »
The apostrophe is in no danger in the U.S., unfortunately.  It is commonly used (incorrectly) with plurals ending in "s" - or should I have written "plural's"?

It seems particularly common in fruit and vegetable stores or sections of supermarkets.  Apple's, orange's, grape's, onion's, etc.

pat

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Re: Northeast challenge game
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2019, 06:09:49 PM »
It seems particularly common in fruit and vegetable stores or sections of supermarkets.  Apple's, orange's, grape's, onion's, etc.

That’s so common in the UK that it’s even known as a greengrocers’ apostrophe!

Slightly off-subject, but a Facebook post I saw recently, in a group that rabidly supports leaving the EU and has nothing but vitriol for those wishing to remain:

“Best not be aloud to vote at all some so called educated moron’s”.

Says it all really.