Author Topic: Runneth  (Read 6003 times)

anonsi

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Runneth
« on: July 09, 2007, 11:00:40 AM »
What about "runneth"?  As in, "My cup runneth over."

Dave

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 12:07:14 PM »
I was wondering about that myself.  I've noticed a few archaic forms like "hath" are acceptable, but quite a lot are not, even though they occur with some frequency in both Shakespeare and the King James Bible.  Maybe Alan could enlighten us as to the selection criteria?
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne…

Binkie

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 04:14:20 PM »
 Alan..."utero" was rejected. Is that because it is invariably used with "in" ? Just curious!

Dave

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 05:05:03 PM »
I think most dictionaries still regard in utero as unassimilated from Latin, Binkie, in the same category as in vitro, in vivo, in situ and so on.  just goes to show the depressing decline of the traditional classical education!

Cheers,

Dave (your friendly neighbourhood know-all with the crap score today :-[)
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne…

Binkie

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 05:11:58 PM »
I'm sure you're right, Dave. I just had that flash of recognition when "utero" occurred to me, only to be cast down immediately. I do tend to get more and more hopefully desperate as the day wears on !
I'm with you on classical education, too. Not that I ever really enjoyed Latin at school (and mine wasn't posh enough to teach Greek!) but it's come in surprisingly useful. :D

Dave

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 06:32:09 PM »
Believe me, Broken Hill High School was not exactly up there either, Binkie.  In year 12, way back in 1967, the only way I could do Latin for the HSC was by correspondence.  I didn't tackle Greek until I decided to try to teach myself when I was about 40, mainly because I wanted to read The Odyssey in the original language.  It was a REALLY dumb idea, almost but not quite as bad as the time I decided to try to learn classical Chinese -- they both require a lot of dedication and hard work, the which bring me out in a nasty rash!  At least I can still remember the Greek alphabet ;D...
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne…

Binkie

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 06:41:39 PM »
Alpha,Beta,Gamma,Delta,Epsilon, Zeta, Eta...........um...........I know lambda mu and nu come in somewhere!....um...... something something, Psi, Omega. I think I need to do a bit of study!

Tania

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 08:07:14 PM »
Sefton High School in 1984 wasn't much better, cooking for the girls & woodwork for the boys

Alan W

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 05:41:28 PM »
Regarding runneth - For a while, Viz was the champion of the archaic verb form, suggesting knowest on one occasion and endeth on another. I agreed with both of these proposals, and I think I probably mentioned, like Dave, Shakespeare and the King James Bible.

At a guess, I'd say the words of this type that were in our initial word list, YAWL, were those found in dictionaries, and they would be the irregular inflections, like dost, doth, hast and hath. Dictionaries probably don't list words like runneth because they're regular forms, whose meaning we're supposed to be able to work out for ourselves.

I wouldn't go so far as to say we should allow an est form and an eth form for every verb. Probably usage in literature is a fairly good guide.

It seems that runneth wasn't actually used by Shakespeare, but my speed reading of the King James Bible spotted 11 uses of the word, including "my cup runneth over" in Psalm 23. A full-text search on Project Gutenberg matched 381 books (although quite a few of these seemed to be works of Bible commentary).

So, I'd say runneth should be added to the list.

Regarding utero, I think Binkie and Dave are both right: it's only used in the phrase in utero, not as a word in its own right, and the phrase is generally flagged as an unassimilated (or un-naturalised) foreign one.
Alan Walker
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Binkie

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 05:44:35 PM »
Speed reading of the King James Bible ? O Captain, My Captain, words fail me!

anonsi

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 10:56:04 PM »
Did you read the entire Bible just to see if runneth made it in there?!   :angel:

biggerbirdbrain

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 11:03:36 PM »
So, technically, he had been runneth-reading!

Alan W

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Re: Runneth
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 10:49:14 AM »
All right, all right, I know what you're all thinking: if he was a serious scholar of the English language, he'd know it off by heart.

What can I say - "I do remember my faults this day" (Genesis 41:9)
Alan Walker
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