Author Topic: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues  (Read 54916 times)

technomc

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #120 on: July 18, 2007, 05:35:12 PM »
What a fount of knowledge you are Binks...[even if you had to look it up]...the next time i hear that phrase i will astound everyone with the facts...and look like a real smartypants...
Thanks for taking the time to look...
 :angel:

Alan W

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2007, 07:00:34 PM »
To sum up this discussion about plurals, I get the feeling that the weight of opinion is against any drastic changes. That would seem to include major changes of policy - such as allowing all plurals - and any mass admission of new words by the hundred under an interpretation of established policy.

(I still think there's merit in the suggestion I made of barring closely related words, without specifically excluding any plurals. I may, at some stage, set up a prototype to see how that works in practice.)

A number of people said we should continue to look at each case on its merits, but that doesn't actually eliminate the need for some criteria to apply in making those assessments.

The most contentious cases seem to be where two words are written the same way, such as pants, that you wear, versus pants, meaning what a dog does. I can't accept that in every such case, the word should be excluded. It would lead to some ridiculous results where one word is much more obscure than the other. I've given some examples in a previous post. Here's another one: anus could mean something inside your pants, but it also could mean edible tubers from a twining herb, Tropaeolum tuberosum, of the nasturtium family, found in the Andes. I don't think this plural meaning justifies dropping the word from our list.

But perhaps we have been drifting towards an excessively lax approach. Let's remember what this is all about - trying to please the player of the puzzle. On the surface, it might seem that excluding too many words is just as bad as allowing too many words - either way, someone will get annoyed. But, in practice, admitting more words doesn't actually make it easier for players to reach a given target level, because the targets get higher as more words are allowed.

If you're one word short of a rosette, and you think of pants and try it, unsuccessfully, you may think, "If only pants were allowed, I'd have a rosette now." Wrong! If pants were allowed, you would have been two words short of a rosette, and after playing pants, you'd still have one more word to find. On the other hand, if a player avoided trying pants because they thought of it as a plural, and then the next day they saw that it was allowed, and was the one word they needed for the rosette, they would have a genuine complaint - if pants had not been allowed, they would have got the rosette.

So, I think there are rational reasons for being reluctant to admit new words where the arguments seem borderline, especially where the proposed word would be classed as common.

I don't think any of the above reasoning need cause us to want to remove any of the "plural" words we have recently added. However, it does suggest to me a rethink of some of the words that have been accepted in forum discussions, but haven't yet actually gone into the list. They are:

  • pants
  • mons
  • divers
  • hives

What do we all think now about these? I'm still pretty sure that mons should be allowed, because the plural words spelled like that are very obscure - even more rarely-used than the anatomical meaning. But I'm not so sure about the other three.
Alan Walker
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Linda

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #122 on: July 20, 2007, 07:02:51 PM »
Alan ... I agree with 3 of them but can't understand why 'divers' would be included .... do tell!  >:D

Alan W

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #123 on: July 20, 2007, 07:08:25 PM »
Linda, you must have let your attention wander when this was discussed. See this topic.
Alan Walker
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Linda

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #124 on: July 20, 2007, 07:15:57 PM »
Sorry sir ... short attention span ... have looked at the topic but still not convinced ... but if you think it's okley dokely then who am I to doubt your infinite wisdom!  >:D

Alan W

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2007, 07:25:11 PM »
Well, in fact what I'm saying now is that I'm not convinced hives, divers or pants should be allowed.
Alan Walker
Creator of Lexigame websites

Linda

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2007, 07:30:18 PM »
Well, make your mind up ... could confuse a stupid person!  >:D

dino

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #127 on: July 21, 2007, 02:48:40 PM »
 ??? what about axes as the plural of axis?

Alan W

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #128 on: July 21, 2007, 03:57:13 PM »
??? what about axes as the plural of axis?

Good example, Dino. That is, "good" in the sense of bringing out some of the most perplexing issues. An American player might also say, "What about axes as the plural of ax?"

I'm inclined to think, in light of the previous discussion in this thread, that the word should continue to be excluded, but I'd be interested to see what others think.
Alan Walker
Creator of Lexigame websites

Dave

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #129 on: July 21, 2007, 05:13:49 PM »
I am with you on this one, Alan.  I tried "axes" myself and then cursed because I hadn't thought of the more everyday plural, and "mons" has only ever had the anatomical meaning  in my vocabulary, quite possibly because I have a dirty mind.  I think you are moving in the right direction-- with some relief, because I really didn't want to see a truckload of additional words :).

Cheers,

Dave
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerneā€¦

Binkie

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #130 on: July 21, 2007, 05:47:09 PM »
What a deep, psychic bond we must have, Dave! I did precisely the same, feeling smug until I realised that "axes" had more than one meaning. I do agree with you - I don't think I want to cope with hundreds of plurals ending in "s". Apart from anything else, it's just too easy!

technomc

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2007, 07:29:36 PM »
Hi everyone..
I don't know about the rest of you forumates....but it takes me every spare minute of the day to get the words i do get, i haven't got the time for anymore 'S' words en masse.....
As i post..i am walking up and down my lounge holding up a banner and wearing an appropriate 'T' shirt, donning the legend;
 

                                                  JUST SAY NO!

                                                   TO PLURALS


...and chanting...NO MORE 'S' WORDS...NO MORE 'S' WORDS.....

Binkie

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #132 on: July 21, 2007, 09:27:05 PM »
Oh hit! Are we till dicuing the poibilitie of uing plural? I'm abolutely ick of eeing o many pot about the ubject. Jut ban all " " word, and ee what happen. Imple!

biggerbirdbrain

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #133 on: July 21, 2007, 09:32:55 PM »
Maybe we *hould ju*t eliminate all word* with any e**e* at all! Wouldn't that *olve the problem altogether?

Binkie

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Re: "Clothes" vs "clothe" and related Plural Issues
« Reply #134 on: July 21, 2007, 09:46:57 PM »
Ye, Threeb, I can ee that you have graped the point traight away. Urely it would be eaier if we jut dimied (ooh....good one there....work it out!)all the "..." in a clean weep.