Author Topic: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss  (Read 4854 times)

Katzmeow

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The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« on: October 10, 2018, 02:42:55 PM »
It seems to me that the fewer words there are to find, the better I do.  When the target is high, it seems I just miss more of them.
I wonder if anyone else has this problem?
My truth may not be your truth.  That makes neither of us right or wrong, only different.

auntiemo

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 03:23:06 PM »
Could it just seem like that?  Is it a percentage thing?  If you only find 40 words in a target of 50, it's exactly the same percentage (80%) as only missing 4 in a 20 word game. Watch the little green pie graph of common words  to put the numbers in perspective.
And just enjoy the game 😊
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mkenuk

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 03:56:03 PM »
I think a lot of players are unnecessarily daunted by the bigger targets.
For example, the recent ministered 10-letter game had a huge target of 91 common words. Occasionally 10-letter targets have been 100+
However, many of the required words can be found by modifying a base word.
For example tense gives you two other words -  tensed and tenser..
Even the keyword ministered is an inflected form of minister.

send and sent go together as do dries and driest. And so on.
 
Think and play this way and the huge total can soon be brought down to more manageable proportions.

Also, don't forget to look for anagrams in every word you play - if you play sent, for example, don't forget to play its anagram nest (and the inflected form nested.)

The smaller targets can also be very frustrating. It took me a long time yesterday to see silica in the 26-word target socialist.

Katzmeow

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 04:39:09 PM »
Is it a percentage thing? 

Yes, I think it is a percentage thing.  I was just trying my own puzzle for which Chi found 114 common words and I found 97.

However, many of the required words can be found by modifying a base word ... Also, don't forget to look for anagrams in every word you play...

Yes, I am getting better at doing those things "chaining", my daughter calls it.
I've noticed I seem blind to particular words, eg gnat, relic, epic and retie.  I miss those over & over. 

I admit that when I run out of ideas I use a puzzle solver to find the remaining common words, and I am glad I do.  There are so many 'common' words I've never before encountered, it really helps me at this stage.   I do plan to stop using it soon, when I get better at not missing so many basic words every time.
My truth may not be your truth.  That makes neither of us right or wrong, only different.

Les303

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 05:49:27 PM »
G'day Katzmeow,

I understand that you have only started playing this wonderful game this year & i am delighted to hear that you are enjoying it so much & are continuing to improve your game , I am also very glad to see your increasing participation in the forum, after all , where else could you receive such expert advice from one of the " masters of the game " such as Mike.

Do you realise that once a game has closed, you can click the solution tab to view all the words that you have missed. ( they will be highlighted in red ).

The reason I ask this question is because if I have interpreted your post correctly " when I run out of ideas I use a puzzle solver to find the remaining common words " and you are using a puzzle solver to achieve stars & rosettes, how can you gauge any improvement in your game & what is the cut off number before you stop using it... under 20 common words still to be found, under 10, under 5 , just one common word left to be found, I am suggesting that if you continue to use it then you will probably never stop & what ever scores you manage to achieve will be irrelevant to other players that monitor the scoreboard.

By using a puzzle solver, you are in fact falsifying your own statistics & giving onlookers of the scoreboard a false impression of your true abilities & as i said earlier, by using an aide you are making it more difficult to keep track of your own true improvement.

Just imagine if every player used a puzzle solver when they ran out of ideas, the achievement of finding that elusive " big word " or attaining a rosette would become absolutely meaningless.
Of course you are not the only player out there who chooses to use " aides " at least you have been upfront & honest about it so i do respect you for that and of course you are entitled to play this game anyway you choose.


No disrespect or offence intended, this is just my opinion which is what this forum is all about.


Cheers Les


« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 05:56:53 PM by Les303 »

yelnats

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 06:32:39 PM »
Both my wife and I do "The Age" Target puzzle; she does it on paper and I use "Your Puzzles" in Chi. This puzzle seems to have a different 9 letter word selection criterion to Chihuahua with a target of 15 - 40 words standard. I do seem to have fewer common words to be found in the Age than in Chi, and I have got more rosettes in the Age puzzle than in Chi.

It also has fewer American spellings e.g. the kilometre game did not have kilometer as well.

pat

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 08:30:45 PM »
Les, I think you assume that everyone has the same view of the game as you do.

... what ever scores you manage to achieve will be irrelevant to other players that monitor the scoreboard.

I personally couldn't care less what score other players achieve. Katzmeow's scores are completely irrelevant to me as I'm sure mine are to him/her. While there are some players, you amongst them, who use others as benchmarks, I'm sure there are many others who simply play the game for the pleasure it gives them, regardless of how many words they find or how they compare with other players.

By using a puzzle solver, you are in fact falsifying your own statistics & giving onlookers of the scoreboard a false impression of your true abilities & as i said earlier, by using an aide you are making it more difficult to keep track of your own true improvement.

You can only measure true improvement within a given set of variables. For example, if you take eight minutes to run one mile and you reduce that by 10 seconds, that's a genuine improvement; the distance has remained constant but the time taken to achieve it has reduced. I'd stick my neck out and say that there's probably not a single Chi player who sets him- or herself a precise time limit to play the game every day. My 'performance' can vary wildly. Some days I get a rosette, or very near to one, simply because I've spent a lot of time on the puzzle; other days I might be 20 words short simply because I couldn't be bothered. Neither score is an indicator of my ability but rather my level of interest in that particular game.

... and of course you are entitled to play this game anyway you choose.

That's what it all comes down to.

No disrespect or offence intended, this is just my opinion ...

Ditto

Linda

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 11:09:21 PM »
Me too, all of the above, Pat!  >:D

I hardly ever notice what anyone else scores, nor do I care, however I have noticed that you and I often run out of steam around about the same time/score!! 

Les303

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 11:33:03 PM »
I was gifted my first computer in 2015 ….( i'm 59yrs old in November this year )
What in the hell am I supposed to do with this contraption ?
My nephew & older brother set it up for me, I know you love your crosswords so we will load this site called chi.
From the very first day that I attempted to login I had all sorts of problems.
The administrator , was absolutely brilliant, painstakingly explaining step by step exactly what I had to do.
So I am finally logged in but still have no concept that I will be playing with other players & new friends from throughout the world.
I evventually work out how to register for the forum & it is here that i am fortunate enough to meet Pat.
I will never forget how she taught me the basics of Chi but more importantly she basically taught me how to use a computer.

Back then , my comments were quite scathing about those players who could achieve a perfect score in every game . i have softened my attitude somwhat but at the end of the day, in my opinion , they are just cheats.



pat

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 01:28:15 AM »
Les, thank you for your kind words but I fear you credit me with too much. I do remember telling you how to do one or two things way back when, but others were equally as helpful to you as I recall.

rogue_mother

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 05:11:58 AM »
It seems to me that the fewer words there are to find, the better I do.  When the target is high, it seems I just miss more of them.
I wonder if anyone else has this problem?

KM, I have often had that perception, but an examination of my record shows that the difference is slight in my own case. I have ten years of statistics compiled by Alan W. to show that the percentage differences among my achievements in the three puzzles are very slight. My current spread among the three puzzles for the common words found is 1.4 percent, and yes, the Standard percentage is highest, followed by the Challenge, and then the 10-letter. If one factors in all words played, then the spread is 2.2 percent, and ironically, the Challenge puzzle is the one I do best on, followed by the Standard, then the 10-Letter. This is probably an anomaly, since when I play the Standard puzzle I occasionally indulge in the game play that some others do, namely to get a rosette playing only the common words. If I always went full throttle in the Standard, I would probably also have the highest percentage of all words found in that game, as well.

The first year or so that I played Chihuahua, I also used a puzzle solver occasionally to find all the common words. Eventually I decided that getting a rosette was not the be all and end all for me; I would rather just try to get as many words as possible by relying on my own memory. Over time, my percentages have gone beyond where they were back when I was using a puzzle solver, just through practice and repetition. I owe quite a bit of this to my friendly rivalry with roberts, another long-time Chi player. I doubt that my high ranking would be nearly as high if I didn't engage in this daily back and forth.


I personally couldn't care less what score other players achieve.

Pat, I think you actually could care less. If you did, you might not have posted this. Such comments might lead one to believe you actually do care what score some other players achieve and how they do it, even if you don't measure yourself against their performance. >:D


Back then , my comments were quite scathing about those players who could achieve a perfect score in every game . i have softened my attitude somwhat but at the end of the day, in my opinion , they are just cheats.

Clearly just an opinion, since you acknowledge that people have the right to play the game as they choose. Those players who achieve such high scores with apparent ease are not violating the terms of Chihuahua; hence, they are not cheating. They are violating your expectations of how players should behave. When I first started playing Chihuahua, I did not understand what the Shuffle function was. Once I grasped it, I still wondered if using it constituted cheating. Eventually I decided that if Alan had made it so openly available to everyone, it surely was not cheating. I use it copiously now in every game, but it would not surprise me if there are some players who even now consider it to be cheating. My point here is that "cheating" in Chihuahua is in the eye of the beholder. With so many different sets of goals, expectations, levels of interest and time available among the six hundred plus Chihuahua players, it shouldn't be surprising that there is a wide variation in player styles. I think it is perhaps unjust to expect everyone to hew to your line.

KM, keep using the puzzle solver as long as you need to. My game started to improve when I began to keep lists of the words I missed instead, one list for the common words, one for the uncommon ones, one for the attempts that did not turn out to be words. For a while I consulted these lists during game play, but I no longer do that and haven't for years. I just find that writing down the missed words helps me remember them better.


Inside the Beltway, Washington, DC metropolitan area

Ozzyjack

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 09:17:51 AM »
Back then , my comments were quite scathing about those players who could achieve a perfect score in every game . i have softened my attitude somewhat but at the end of the day, in my opinion , they are just cheats.

Les, i was going to take issue with you on two counts
  • What constitutes cheating and whose business is it to make an issue of it?
  • What makes you so sure that someone who gets perfect scores is using anything other their inherit ability to achieve that result?

Pat and R-M have addressed the first with much more eloquence than I could achieve, so I will only address the second.

I would guess you are not aware of the World Memory Championships,  Read this for a brief description.

I would guess that for people who have the mind skills to perform these feats, it would be a breeze to memorise word lists for Chihuahua and to to update them in their mind when Allan makes changes.  Especially considering they don't have the time constraints of competition.

It is beyond my comprehension how people possess these skills but many prove in regulated competitions that they do have them.  I can't understand Einstein's theory of relativity either but there are thousands of people in the world who can and good luck to them.

Why would people with this exceptional ability want to demonstrate it by getting all the words in a Chihuahua puzzle?  It is none of my business and, frankly, it is none of yours.  I suspect it is a form of relaxation similar to meditation.  I am curious but accept I have no right to be told. If it gives them satisfaction, why would we even question it?

I am not sure that everyone that gets a perfect score has not used more than memory skills to achieve it, but I am sure there are people who could achieve it only using their memory skills.

Les, I believe you are a kind person and I would ask you to consider how hurtful it would be to be such a talented person and, instead of being praised for that skill, be repeatedly called a cheat

Les, Judge not lest ye be judged.  I know that is not original but I am sure whoever said it knew what they were talking about.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 11:36:11 AM by Ozzyjack »
Regards, Jack

pat

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 09:32:55 AM »
Pat, I think you actually could care less. If you did, you might not have posted this. Such comments might lead one to believe you actually do care what score some other players achieve and how they do it, even if you don't measure yourself against their performance. >:D

I guess we’ll just have to agree to differ then, R_M. On the day in question I happened to notice that an anonymous player had achieved a trophy within minutes. I’d be lying if I said I never look at the scoreboard - I do. I quite often look to see how many people have got rosettes, not because I’m interested in who they are but because it gives me an idea of how difficult the puzzle is. If only two or three rosettes have been won it tells me that I’m unlikely to get one myself, quite possibly because the common words will include one or more that I don’t know, but more likely because I simply won’t find all the words. So in that respect, general scores are of interest to me, but I really don’t care what individual players achieve. It is, of course, your prerogative not to believe me.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 09:37:37 AM by pat »

Ozzyjack

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 11:29:07 AM »
On the day in question I happened to notice that an anonymous player had achieved a trophy within minutes.

Pat, I noticed that too.  There was no way that one was done on brain power alone.
Regards, Jack

mkenuk

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Re: The More Words to Find, the More I Miss
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 02:31:57 PM »
Look no further than the current 10-letter game ( which, in my opinion, is tougher than usual).

The first cup appeared (c/o 'Mr /Ms Anon') after less than 4 minutes!!

I can understand that somebody might get a kick out of seeing their name or nickname at the top of the pile
 with a cup next to it, but 'anon' ! ??

 ???