Irritating British words/expressions

[anona]

TRex: I agree with you, but JCC agrees with the other camp. My father constantly corrected my grammar when I was a child, and his teaching stuck. I had to read Fowler to understand the difference between "compare with" and "compare to", but now that can't be unlearnt. Or  unlearned.

Birdy: I was very relieved when months ago I found out that certain "Americanisms" were in fact words we used to use in Britain but had been discarded here - e.g. gotten and fall (as in Autumn). I love that sense of history displaced, both in the past but living today. Reading the Dictionary of English Place Names gives me an eerie feeling of hovering over a holographic landscape where the word Birmingham describes the large city of today but also a small settlement where Beorma's people lives.

It is true that some expressions do grate badly, but a chance to air my prejudices wasn't why I started the topic. I did wonder what expressions We used that made You grind your teeth.

[mkenuk]

[
Why can't English be as stable as other languages?

Probably because it's the most widespread of all the world's major languages.
 
The French may try to regulate the use of their language by evoking the authority of the Academie, but with little real success.
'Le weekend', 'le parking' and 'Le hamburger' will prevail.
I overheard two French speakers talking on a bus recently; my French is not what it was, but I definitely made out 'du feedback' and 'des emails', pronounced 'a l'anglais'.

(apologies for the missing accents. I don't know how to get them)

I think 'American' English has been particularly prone to change over the years because of the diversity of languages spoken by migrants to that country. German speakers, Italian speakers, Spanish speakers and speakers of a plethora of Eastern European and Oriental languages have all adopted English as the lingua franca, but with some modifications.

Example: where did 'different than' come from? It's not used in UK ('different from' or 'different to' are standard, but not 'different than').
Is it perhaps a literal translation of German 'anders als', which was used by German-speaking migrants and then spread through North America?

'I saw it already.' Most certainly not correct in UK English where 'already' is only used with a present or past perfect tense ('I have already seen it'), but not with a past simple.
Another translation? From (I'm guessing here) an Eastern European language, or from Yiddish?

It is, of course, 'American' English which is now spreading round the world by means of cinema,TV and the social media. Consequently 'British' English, 'Australian' English, 'South African' English and all the rest of what started in the seventeenth century simply as 'English' are being transformed into something quite different.

It's normal; Latin evolved into French, Italian, Spanish and so on, after the fall of the Roman Empire. The British Empire has gone - so has the language of Victorian England.

[yelnats]

Why can't English be as stable as other languages?

I was reading a Spanish paper (El País) about the Greenland iceberg and it didn't say "Bloque de hielo", but "iceberg". I'm told it's pronounced the same as in English.

A Spaniard and Mexican couldn't agree on the proper word for Corn chips but agreed on "Doritos". Likewise for USB Memory stick - pendrive (as in English) or memoria. Tortillas are different things in Spain, Mexico, or Argentina.

[pat]

(apologies for the missing accents. I don't know how to get them)

I don't know what device(s) you use, Mike, but on an iPad (assuming you have recent software) you can just hold the letter down on the keyboard and it offers accented options.

On Windows PCs you can search for the Character Map. You look for the accented letter that you want and it tells you the combination of keys to press to get it.

[TRex]

My father constantly corrected my grammar when I was a child, and his teaching stuck. I had to read Fowler to understand the difference between "compare with" and "compare to", but now that can't be unlearnt. Or  unlearned.

So true.

It is true that some expressions do grate badly, but a chance to air my prejudices wasn't why I started the topic. I did wonder what expressions We used that made You grind your teeth.

Sorry.

I was reading a Spanish paper (El País) about the Greenland iceberg and it didn't say "Bloque de hielo", but "iceberg". I'm told it's pronounced the same as in English.

Several years ago, I read an article which reported on a study of European language novels which showed there was (is) a trend of non-English languages changing normal word order (e.g. adjectives after nouns) to word order typical of English.

I don't know what device(s) you use, Mike, but on an iPad (assuming you have recent software) you can just hold the letter down on the keyboard and it offers accented options.

On Windows PCs you can search for the Character Map. You look for the accented letter that you want and it tells you the combination of keys to press to get it.

My preference on PCs (and, presumably, Macs) is to use an International Keyboard. On Windows, I use 'United States-International', on Linux I use 'US, intl., with dead keys'.

The attached image shows the characters which can be easily typed.

[a non-amos]

I must agree.  It is a little irritating when I hear a Brit pronounce it as "mirrah" instead of "mirror".

[mkenuk]

(apologies for the missing accents. I don't know how to get them)

I don't know what device(s) you use, Mike, but on an iPad (assuming you have recent software) you can just hold the letter down on the keyboard and it offers accented options.

On Windows PCs you can search for the Character Map. You look for the accented letter that you want and it tells you the combination of keys to press to get it.

Thanks, Pat. And thanks also, TRex, but I don't think I'll bother with an international keyboard. My antiquated PC just wouldn't know what to do with it!

[birdy]

It is true that some expressions do grate badly, but a chance to air my prejudices wasn't why I started the topic. I did wonder what expressions We used that made You grind your teeth.

My comments weren't aimed at you, Anona, but more in reaction to what I was reading in The Prodigal Tongue.

One of the points that Lynne Murphy makes in that book is that Americans don't react as negatively to Britishisms because of our [no doubt naive] admiration for the English accent. Somehow we translate the accent to suggest that the speaker is more educated, higher class, more cultured, etc.  I had a friend from England who lived in the States for many years and (deliberately) never lost or modified her accent.  She could say some very unpleasant things (she had a sharp tongue) and people wouldn't take offense as they would have if I had said them.

So perhaps British expressions don't grate on our ears as much as ours do on yours.

[anona]

Birdy: yes, maybe - and perhaps we just feel more protective and defensive about it than you do, as well.
A bit like the French over their cheeses. They have felt theirs are superior to any others, whereas I felt they have some great cheeses but so do we; and why can't I get a decent bit of tasty cheese to cook with over there! (I think Cantal was the nearest I found in supermarkets, but it has been maybe ten to twelve years since I've been there and I won't be back now,) OK, so I'm a pleb, but a pleb who loves all cheeses except the ones that crawl towards you.

But.
I remember some French friends coming for a meal and bringing a cousin with them. One of the cheeses I had put out was a Wensleydale with perhaps cranberries in it. The cousin paused in suspicion, asked what it was and, when told, physically recoiled at least a foot with a look of disgust and shaking her head. After all, it was a venomous snake not encountered in France. I don't mean to say that fruited Wensleydale is The Greatest Cheese in the world, but if that's what some people like, so what? (Though I do have a bit of a thing for Wenseydale with ginger, as a dessert cheese ...)

A non amos: that's interesting, thanks. And do you pronounce mirror almost as a single syllable "meer" as in the guidance I found? I hadn't even noticed Americans pronounced it so very differently from us until Linda pointed it out. Of course, now I shall notice it, damn.

[TRex]

OK, so I'm a pleb, but a pleb who loves all cheeses except the ones that crawl towards you.

What is a cheese that crawls towards you?

[mkenuk]

Presumably one that is infested with maggots and such-like.
I think it's simply a facetious way of referring to a cheese which is extremely smelly!

[mkenuk]

Cue Monty Python's 'Cheese Shop' sketch, in  case there is anyone who doesn't know it...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0

[anona]

Thank you, Mike - great picture and I hadn't seen the sketch before. Cheese: smelly, probably. Very sweaty, going liquid and runny; and yes, sometimes when one might have doubts about hygiene.

[ensiform]

Yes!  You already say skedule!  And soon all you olds will be gone and your youths won't know any different pronunciations even ever existed, and will be talking just like Yanks!  We're everywhere!!  We're ubiquitous!  We rule the world!  U-S-A!  MERKA!!

[birdy]

I must admit I've never heard an American say 'mirror'. Perhaps it's a difficult word for them given their rhotic pronunciation.

I've always pronounced mirror as two syllables, but I thought maybe it was a leftover from my New England accent, which I gave up many years ago when I had a job involving speaking on the phone - people could understand me in person, but not on the phone.

So I asked some friends - it turns out they all pronounce it the way I do, or as the man in the ESL video showed as the first example: "me-ror" - though I think that "e" is a shorter "e" than he used.  So maybe it's a regional accent.