Horrifying

[mkenuk]

The headline on the BBC website today horrified me:

'Trump Backs Guns for Teachers'.

Does this moron really believe that this is the best way of preventing a repetition of the atrocities which occurred last week in Florida?

Before retiring a few years ago, I was a teacher for about 45 years. I worked in schools and colleges in various parts of the world, and the idea of carrying a firearm to work with me - (or would it be issued to me on arrival, Mr Trump?) - and having it with me in my classroom is something I can't get my head around.

I'm 71 years old. Apart from air-rifles at fairgrounds (I wasn't very good - I never won anything!) I have never in my life held a gun, and, to be honest, have never wanted to.

I'd be grateful, though, if someone could tell me what I've missed.

[yelnats]

It seems the Trump answer to too many guns, is more guns! The NRA will love him!

I looked at Wikipedia gun deaths per capita per country. 10 of the top 12 were in the Americas (no idea why). The U.S. has more guns than people!

[Ozzyjack]

The headline on the BBC website today horrified me:

'Trump Backs Guns for Teachers’
...........

I'd be grateful, though, if someone could tell me what I've missed.

Mike, I feel that I should try to address your question and yet I feel inadequate to do it justice.   

The best I can do is to make some random observations to start a conversation and hope that you or other forum members can use them, or point to flaws in them, and to add to them to develop a more coherent analysis.

First, I agree with your conclusion that trying to solve the problem of school massacres by arming teachers is  a horrifying thought and I believe it is one of the least likely solutions to succeed.

Some considerations are: what is there about the American culture that would even have it considered?; is it reasonable to expect that politicians can override a gun culture that is deeply entrenched?; if gun toting teachers were introduced could it be successful in solving the problem?; what other practical and implementable solutions are their to solve the problem?

Some people very close to me lived for a year in Washington DC not long ago. They made a lot of friends who they described as lovely and intelligent people who almost universally were opposed to increased gun control. I cannot understand it.  Perhaps some of our American forumites could enlighten us.

Politicians have the power to enforce change in the short term but in a democratic country they can lose that power at the next election if they ride roughshod over the will of their constituents. What can be reasonably expected of them to change the culture?

 Presumably the proposal is to arm teachers with concealed pistols.  What use would they be against the automatic rifles that seem to be the weapon of choice for these massacres?  I can’t see that the proposal could achieve its desired result.

I was listening to a panel discussion this afternoon that claimed that there was a distinct divide in the views of the under 40s and over 40s on the question of gun control and that in the longer term the GOP could not afford to ignore the views of the younger voters.  But does this mean we have to tolerate continued massacres in the short term?

What do you think?

[Hobbit]

I'm certainly not qualified to make any comment on this subject Jack.  I believe Obama tried to address the matter of gun control before he left office.  My first thought on hearing that Trump wants to arm teachers was that he now gone totally mad.  The thought of living in a country where guns are so prevalent terrifies me.  When I go on holiday & get off the train at the Gare du Nord in Paris & I'm confronted with Police & soldiers carrying guns so openly I feel slightly unnerved. My friend & I holidayed last summer in a small town in south west France.  A group of soldiers with guns were regularly seen several times a day marching around the town.  I quite understand after everything the French have suffered in recent times.  I'm just thankful the ordinary citizens don't carry guns.
I too would be interested to hear the thoughts of our friends across the Pond on this subject.
Pen

[TRex]

Well, I have the misfortune to live in this stupid, f***ed up country — and I don't understand it. I am familiar with the arguments, but I think its supporters have watched Shane (a great movie, but it ought to be obvious it isn't real life) and that genre too much — where the good guys always win in a shootout.

Far too few of them have seen the chaos of a real shootout. Enough of them know Sherman's quote 'War is hell', but don't know the whole quote:

I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.

I'm not sure people outside this mess are aware of how the Republicans have radically engaged in gerrymandering to allow them to have more political clout than they would have based on the number of voters who support them. Recently the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania ruled the Republican-drawn districts were unconstitutional, gave the legislature a due date (which was missed), and then imposed a more equitable map — and now the Republicans in that commonwealth are talking about impeaching the entire court. And Pennsylvania isn't unique amongst the fifty.

———

The kids from Florida who are fighting for sensible controls on firearms don't have a chance. They don't have the mega-$$$$$ which owns the lawmakers and ensures the average person's views are considered. They might as well be tilting at windmills. Their hearts are in the right place, but their heads aren't. In a week or two, they'll be forgotten and their voices will be ignored and the majority of Americans will go back to watching Dancing With the Stars or American Idol or other mindless pablum. And the next mass shooting will start the next cycle.

———

This past week, the head of the Federal Communications Commission (who has been hell-bent on changing every policy he can so that it favours big business and sticks it to the consumers) was awarded a handmade Kentucky long rifle by the NRA at the Conservative Political Action Conference — but they couldn't actually present the weapon on stage because the Conservative Political Action Conference has a no-weapons policy for its events!!!

This country is beyond help.

[nineoaks]

Dear TRex:

Thanks for your excellent rant.

Horrifying is the word, for sure. We live in a kleptocracy. The Federal Government is headed by a narcissistic sociopath, the Congress is the legislative arm of the NRA, the Justice Department is run by a racist apologist, the CDC has been given a list of words it is forbidden to use, the EPA is run by a notorious disrespector of the environment,  and on and on and ON.

That's why, in order not to succumb to a total paralysis of despair, I'm working on two political campaigns, one local, one statewide. I know the momentum of the fear-fuelled onslaught of anger and hatred is powerful, even overwhelming at times, but 2018 is coming, and there is hope of a push-back.

It may very well be in vain, a fool's errand, even, but, for me it's time to show up, speak up, act up.

nineoaks

PS: By '2018 is coming,' I mean the midterm elections later this year.

[Hobbit]

Thanks Trex & Nineoaks for your interesting & insightful comments.
Nineoaks I wish you all the luck in the world with your two political campaigns. I sincerely hope you can make a difference.
Penny

[TRex]

I sincerely wish you the best, Nineoaks, but I've reached the point where I think it is time to blow everything up and start over. The system is utterly broken and so controlled by the few that things cannot be fixed from within.

[nineoaks]

Thanks, Penny, for your kind words of encouragement. They are much appreciated!

And, thanks, also to TRex for his original post and his good wishes. Oh, yes, I understand that 'blow it up and start over' feeling, but I can't really do anything with it. At least working for change brings me into community with like-thinking people and buoys my spirit.

Best Wishes,

nineoaks

[Tom44]

Everything about guns and America is insane and horrifying.  And I think there is something oddball about American culture with an unhealthy focus on personal rights.  Despite the crazy SCOTUS decision(s) on guns and the 2nd Amendment rights, I consider it immoral to own assault weapons whose sole purpose is to kill people (pretty much useless for hunting and not very handy for self defense) with ammunition designed either to tumble after it hits or to pierce armor.  The military might need such weapons, but not civilians.  That is, there is a difference between a right to bear arms, and the legitimate uses such as hunting or self defense, and ownership of guns that have no legal legitimate purpose.  For me, that is a moral distinction.

 Just my opinion (and I am American).

[a non-amos]

I must offer TR a few words of warning.  Yes, the system is broken.  It is broken in so many ways it would be difficult to catalog them.  I don't have the time to write that and you don't have the patience to read it.

I understand your desire to "blow everything up" and "start over", but I do not agree with it.  This was a significant part of how Trump got elected.  Some nonsense about "drain the swamp" and "replace the alligators with man-eating velociraptors with assault rifles equipped with laser sights".  For the record, I made up the last part.  They don't really have laser sights.

The rest of this post got too long and was deleted.  Yes, it all gets back to corporations (gun manufacturers) wanting more and more money.  Yes, they have a large audience in which their fear-mongering has been very successful.  They sway many voters and they contribute heavily to politicians' reelection campaigns.

Please take some degree of hope in the recent movement to boycott the NRA.  It's only a small start, but at least it's a start.

[TRex]

I must offer TR a few words of warning.  Yes, the system is broken.  It is broken in so many ways it would be difficult to catalog them.  I don't have the time to write that and you don't have the patience to read it.

You might be surprised at my propensity to read essays!

I understand your desire to "blow everything up" and "start over", but I do not agree with it.  This was a significant part of how Trump got elected.

You're right. The problem is the chumps who voted for Trump didn't understand he was thoroughly embedded in the system. He told them what they wanted to hear and they fell for it. (Who needs critical thinking? It isn't required to watch the boob tube.)

Some nonsense about "drain the swamp" and "replace the alligators with man-eating velociraptors with assault rifles equipped with laser sights".  For the record, I made up the last part.  They don't really have laser sights.

If the alligators were replaced, it was with crocodiles.

The rest of this post got too long and was deleted.  Yes, it all gets back to corporations (gun manufacturers) wanting more and more money.  Yes, they have a large audience in which their fear-mongering has been very successful.  They sway many voters and they contribute heavily to politicians' reelection campaigns.

It isn't just the gun manufacturers. Big financial institutions own the Treasury. Big pharma owns the FDA. Big agra owns the USDA. Big chemical firms own the EPA. Big telcos and cable own the FCC. It goes on and on and on and ...

When the party in power changes, the names and faces change, but the ownership does not. The superficial changes create the illusion that voters have had their say and keeps the electorate complacent. But nothing really changes. Those with money maintain control. The latest calculations (over a year old) show one percent control 38.6% of everything and the next nine percent control as much as the one percent.



Divided into quintiles, the top one-fifth control 90%, the second one-fifth control 8%, the middle one-fifth control 2%, the penultimate one-fifth and the bottom one-fifth are in debt. In other words, the bottom 40% are owned by the wealthy (slaves in all but name) and another 20% are struggling to stay out of slavery. The system doesn't give slaves the right to change anything.

Please take some degree of hope in the recent movement to boycott the NRA.  It's only a small start, but at least it's a start.

It is for show and doesn't change anything: rather like changing political parties, an illusion to keep the masses complacent.

[yelnats]

“We should not be banning guns from law-abiding citizens,” Ryan said after a closed-door meeting with Republicans Tuesday (Feb 26 2018). “We should be focusing on making sure citizens who should not be getting guns in the first place don't get those guns.”

Oz point of view - "citizens who should not be getting guns" = EVERYONE!

But Paul Ryan is just repaying his political donors.

[a non-amos]

Dear Yelnats,

I hear you, but this would absolutely not work on this side of the big pond.  Many people over here take gun ownership rights very seriously.  With some notable exceptions (such as Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un), most people would not want the USA to become a battlefield in a shooting war.

We might need to be a little pragmatic.  Our first steps might be to raise the minimum age for gun ownership and to outlaw bump stocks and then establish a more thorough background check (catalogued in a national database) to vet prospective gun buyers.  This would also imply some process for adding people to the "no gun" list and a review process by which they might appeal a decision.

Of course, none of this will actually come about.  The gun lobby has bought two of our three branches of government.  Our "leadership" will make promising noises until the furor dies down.  I had previously commented that the USA is the land of the short attention span.  A "typical" major earthshaking news story will be all but forgotten in 6 weeks.

[TRex]

Methinks a non-amos is coming over to my way of thinking! 

Absolutely right with the possible exception of the attention span — probably closer to 3 weeks.