punnet common?

[TRex]

According to the Ngram Viewer, punnet has been consistently much less common than alit, a word I earlier questioned being 'rare', but was shown, via the Ngram Viewer, that it was. Logically, if alit is a rare word and punnet much less common, shouldn't punnet be classified as rare as well?

[Tom]

Downunder, TRex, it is a VERY common word. Strawberries always come in a punnet, seedlings are always bought in a punnet. So, I guess it depends what part of the planet one comes from.

[Tom]

I'd also suggest that the word punnet is not used terribly often in English literature, other than nursery catalogues (and how many of those are there?). Perhaps, also, Google only looks at American books, after all, the world does begin and end somewhere between the North Atlantic and North Pacific oceans. How's my spelling of 'catalogues'? (My tongue is - almost - firmly in my check!!!!).

[mkenuk]

....after all, the world does begin and end somewhere between the North Atlantic and North Pacific oceans. .

.....Trouble is, Tom, there are some Yanks who actually believe that. Just as there are some Brits who firmly believe that we still have an Empire.... The less said about both types the better........

Punnet? (it's just been underlined by my educationally sub-normal spell checker).
 I learned the word when I was 18 and spent the summer working in a fruit and veg. market. Quintessentially English, like the horrendously expensive  strawberries it contains ready to be served with cream at Wimbledon Fortnight.

I'm surprised it's common in Chi; probably should join its bigger brother 'trug' (also underlined) in the 'rare / uncommon' section.

MK

ps 'catalogue' is fine. How are you on 'epaulette'? .. 'epaulet'  nearly cost me a rosette a few days ago

 

[Morbius]

Although I agree with the comments about the alleged commonness of punnet, I'd point out that there's a difference between words that are in common usage and those that are commonly known.  There are plenty of common words in Chi that aren't in common usage, but are known by (to use Alan's definition) reasonably well-read English speakers.  The Ngram Viewer measures usage, so shouldn't in itself be seen as a definitive source when determining the commonness or otherwise of words in Chi.  Punnet seems not to pass the 'commonly known' test by virtue of the fact that it's chiefly used in the UK and Australia, and therefore not commonly known elsewhere.

[birdy]

Not all that often that these posts come up with a word I've never heard of, but this is one.

[cmh]

OK . I know what a punnet is as I am English and also reasonably ( but not to a show off ! level ) well read but I don't know what Ngram is as I am computer illiterate. Question?? Which is the worst crime to Chi users?

[Tom]

Morbius: "Punnet seems not to pass the 'commonly known' test by virtue of the fact that it's chiefly used in the UK and Australia, and therefore not commonly known elsewhere."

So what is the inference? Only if it is common in the US it's common? It is the 'English' language, after all!

[Morbius]

No, that's not the inference, Tom.  After all, English is spoken in many more places than the USA, UK and Australia! 

[Alan W]

I agree with the suggestion that punnet should cease to be treated as a common word, on the grounds that it seems to be little-known in the US. Possibly the reason it was classed as common in  the first place was ignorance on my part. Because I had grown up with the word as the name for a small container for berries, I assumed it was in use everywhere English is spoken  (and berries eaten).

A few questions have been raised that are worth commenting on.

In response to cmh, the reason some forumites are familiar with the "Ngram Viewer" is that it has been discussed on this forum from time to time as a useful tool in testing how frequently a word is used. It's a matter of word-nerdery rather than computer literacy. It's a web site created by Google where you can get statistics on the frequency of occurrence of words and phrases in a vast collection of books.

As Morbius says, data from the Ngram Viewer is not necessarily conclusive. But in this case the situation is fairly clear. Dictionaries identify punnet as a word used in Britain and various other places, but not in North America. Of course it is possible that a word may be fairly widely known even among people who don't use the word themselves, but the testimony of TRex and birdy suggest that is not the case with this word.

Tom asks if a word is considered common only if it is common in the US. My answer to that is "yes", by and large. For our purposes the test is a negative one: if a word is unknown to a lot of people it can't be considered common. So a word that appears to be little known in the country that is home to the majority of people who speak English as their first language is unlikely to qualify as a "common" word. Similar reasoning applies to a word that is little known in the UK.

[blackrockrose]

So is 'faucet' common, for example? I think it's little known in the UK and Australia, except perhaps from TV shows.

[Morbius]

I'd say faucet is one of those words that, for people outside the USA, is commonly known but not in common usage.  We don't say faucet here in Australia, but most of us know what it is.  For that reason, I'd guess it's a common word in Chi.

[TRex]

So is 'faucet' common, for example? I think it's little known in the UK and Australia, except perhaps from TV shows.

In the U.S., faucet may or may not be common, depending on the region. In some areas, faucet is commonly used; in other areas, the word used is spigot; in other areas, tap is more common.

some interesting maps

What word(s) is/are used in other English-speaking areas?

[ensiform]

There is a distinction here between commonly used and commonly known.  Maybe in large parts of the US, "faucet" is not used, but certainly every adult knows what one is.  Whereas "punnet" is neither commonly used nor commonly known.

[mkenuk]

It is the 'English' language, after all!

I'm not sure that that's altogether true any more, Tom.

 I live in a non-English speaking country, but I'm surrounded by English everywhere I go; very little of that English originated in the UK. Examples abound.

The largest supermarket chain in Thailand (Tesco) is actually British owned, yet outside every one of their stores is a sign proclaiming it to be a 'supercenter' (note spelling)
When I top up my travel-card I'm invited to 'Have a Nice Day' by a talking machine.!
I find myself watching 'movies' and visiting shopping 'malls'. I say 'skedule' instead of 'shedule', etc etc

I'm not trying to say that this is good or bad - it's just simple, straightforward fact. Since the end of World War II, American culture (and with it American language) has 'gone global'.

A few days ago, kids in England (and probably in Australia too) were running round shouting 'Trick or treat?'. School-leavers in UK now have 'prom nights' - although I don't think they've quite got round to 'Homecoming Kings and Queens' yet. Give it time.

I've long accepted that when non-English speakers tell me that they want to learn English  'because it's the world language', it's American English they mean, not British. So be it -  it's true, it's the way of the world.

I've no problem with standard American language - American Literature was one of my specialist subjects at university many years ago -but I will, of course, continue to query baseball terms when they turn up as 'common' on Chi, along with foreign words (from Spanish, Yiddish or any other language) that gain 'common' status through being part of regional American dialects!

 
MK