Author Topic: Swapped nine letter words  (Read 13387 times)

TRex

  • Eulexic
  • ***
  • Posts: 2041
  • ~50 miles from Chicago, in the Corn (maize) Belt
    • View Profile
Swapped nine letter words
« on: April 19, 2009, 01:14:07 PM »
Is there any possibility of a transposition between the 'common' nine-letter word in today's (Sunday 18 Apr) Challenge puzzle with the other nine-letter 'uncommon' word? Is there anyone besides me who is more familiar with the 'uncommon' nine-letter word than the 'common' nine-letter word?
TRex

Alonzo Quixote

  • Paronomaniac
  • ******
  • Posts: 397
  • Greenlawn, NY, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 02:24:28 PM »
I agree with you. 

To me, the "uncommon" 9-letter word seems much more common than the "common" 9-letter word.

technomc

  • WordStar
  • ****
  • Posts: 8513
  • Dorset UK
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 02:20:15 AM »
Do you not beaver away doing this puzzle day after day?

I was beavering away at it just now, but need a cup of tea before i can continue.

I can't think how bereaving can be used in a sentence....please enlighten me someone  :-\ [apart from the sentence i just wrote of course!!!]

rogue_mother

  • Eulexic
  • ***
  • Posts: 2165
  • I CAN'T BREATHE!
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 02:58:43 AM »
I have never heard of beavering -- I didn't even know that beaver could be used as a verb.
Inside the Beltway, Washington, DC metropolitan area

Alonzo Quixote

  • Paronomaniac
  • ******
  • Posts: 397
  • Greenlawn, NY, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 03:40:26 AM »
Guessing that  bereaving  is used much less often than  bereaved  or  bereft.


bereaving

1. Making destitute; depriving; stripping; -- with or before the person or thing taken away.



    "Worsening worldwide economic conditions are severely bereaving people's economic resources."
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 04:04:04 AM by Alonzo Quixote »

technomc

  • WordStar
  • ****
  • Posts: 8513
  • Dorset UK
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 07:18:01 AM »
Thank Q AQ....that has cleared that up nicely for me....

..as to 'beavering', I would have thought that a very common usage in a country where beavers live....and i am surprised RM that you didn't know that....i think it is quite common here.... :-\

Alonzo Quixote

  • Paronomaniac
  • ******
  • Posts: 397
  • Greenlawn, NY, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 07:56:50 AM »
I don't think  beavering  is very common in the USA.  It's true we have lots of beavers here.  I believe there was a strong trade in beaver pelts in the nineteenth century.

When I looked up  beavering,  it means to work very industriously (as beavers do when they build their dams) and it was said to be a British term—


–verb (used without object) 10. British. to work very hard or industriously at something (usually fol. by away).


Toni

  • Cryptoverbalist
  • *
  • Posts: 787
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 05:12:34 PM »
Beavering, as in beavering away at a task, is certainly common here.

greenone

  • Cryptoverbalist
  • *
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 09:13:05 PM »
I think that bereaving is more common than beavering - who beavers????  Lots of people are bereaving though - sadly.

Linda

  • WordStar
  • ****
  • Posts: 7063
  • Cumbria, England
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 10:04:09 PM »
I used to work with a v. posh lady (yes, even more posher than wot I am!) and she was for ever 'beavering away' at something or other.  She also did a fair bit of 'beetling around'!!  >:D

Colhad

  • Lexicomane
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 11:09:44 PM »
I think that bereaving is more common than beavering - who beavers???? 

Beavers and Butthead??

I like how AQ is able to define meanings of words. I play word games and know a word without knowing the meaning, I never think to look it up. A lot of words in Chihuahua are so obscure that you would be hard pressed to find a dictionary that has them listed.
I'm an Aspie.

Alan W

  • Administrator
  • Eulexic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4968
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 12:26:31 PM »
As regards beavering, it seems I was wrong to think beaver used as a verb, meaning to work busily, is a common usage everywhere. It seems to be much less common in America than in Britain. (It is also common here in Australia.)

While some dictionaries published in the US (such as the one quoted by AQ) label it as British, others do not, so it is not necessarily a clear-cut case of a British-only usage, but it is evidently much rarer in the US. The British National Corpus has 31 occurrences of beavering, while the American corpus COCA, though nearly four times as big, has only 10 examples, and some of these are from British authors writing in US publications.

So, I take your point, TRex and others, that beavering shouldn't be classed as common. However, I'm not convinced that bereaving is more common, or even as common.

It raises an issue that we may not have discussed before in the forum. That is, cases where some forms of a verb are much less common than others. In this case, bereaved is certainly a common word, but bereave and bereaving are very seldom used. And when they are used, it is mostly in the mistaken belief that they mean the same as grieve and grieving. However, bereaving doesn't mean mourning a loss - it means causing a loss.

(The alternate past tense bereft is also fairly common, but its meaning has drifted.)

Bereaving appears only 4 times in COCA, and two of these seem to be used in error for grieving and one is a mis-transcription of believing. Leaving only one valid example: "Not even the innocent babe in the cradle was safe from their malice, their schemes at once bereaving mother of child and child of human love." (From a story "Hallowmass", by Esther Friesner, published in Fantasy & Science Fiction, January 2000.) The BNC has no occurrences of bereaving.

Currently our word list is inconsistent, because bereaving is rare, but bereave is common, like bereaved. I feel that bereave and bereaving are equally rare, and only bereaved is unambiguously common.

But it could be objected that anyone familiar with bereaved will infer the existence of the other two inflections, even if they have never encountered them. Since the goal in identifying words as common is to focus on the words that players are likely to know, perhaps it could be said that people "know" bereaving even if they've never heard or seen it used, because they know the rules of regular verb inflection.

I accept that argument up to a point, but I feel that this is a case where the two forms in question are so very rarely used that they don't manage to inherit the common status of their relative. In fact, bereaved is mostly used in an adjectival role - the bereaved widow, etc - and a sentence using bereaved does not normally provide any inspiration on how to construct a natural-sounding sentence using bereaving. One factor, perhaps, is that this verb always has an object, but rarely a subject.

Anyhow, my conclusions after all this: beavering and beavered should become rare. So should bereave. Bereaving should stay rare, and beaver and bereaved should stay common.

That's all for now - I feel as if I've been beavering away at this for hours now.
Alan Walker
Creator of Lexigame websites

TRex

  • Eulexic
  • ***
  • Posts: 2041
  • ~50 miles from Chicago, in the Corn (maize) Belt
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 12:47:36 PM »
That's all for now - I feel as if I've been beavering away at this for hours now.
Where's the little icon for a very big GROAN?

Seriously, thank you for all your research on the various usages. It is edifying and interesting.
TRex

Alonzo Quixote

  • Paronomaniac
  • ******
  • Posts: 397
  • Greenlawn, NY, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 01:36:38 PM »
We must give Alan an award for  industriousness  with regard to  BEAVERING  and all the related words.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 01:39:10 PM by Alonzo Quixote »

technomc

  • WordStar
  • ****
  • Posts: 8513
  • Dorset UK
    • View Profile
Re: Swapped nine letter words
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2009, 02:33:50 AM »
You never cease to amaze me Viral......

If there was a gold medal for beavering away on our behalf, you should get 2...or maybe even 3.....or as the last response was so thorough [and even witty!!] 4 .....