Taps

[Tom44]

I was disconcerted when taps was rejected in yesterday's challenge puzzle.  From the Encarta dictionary:
----------------------------
1. signal for lights out: a bugle call or other signal given at the end of the day, especially in a military camp, as an order that lights should be put out

2. signal at funeral: a bugle call or other signal given at a funeral or memorial service, especially a military one

[Early 19th century. <tap1, or alteration of taptoo, variant of tattoo2]

And from Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

    noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Etymology:
    probably alteration of earlier taptoo tattoo — more at tattoo
Date:
    1824

: the last bugle call at night blown as a signal that lights are to be put out ; also : a similar call blown at military funerals and memorial services
-------------------------------
The bugle call is not a series of "taps" but is known as taps.  That is, in terms of the bugle call there is no such thing as "tap" and, since its a derivation of taptoo or tattoo, the apparently plural word is actually a singular form.  I don't know about Australia or elsewhere, but in America it is a very familiar word and I think it should be allowed.

[ensiform]

I think there's a vague line where plurals are allowed, as in "pants" (allowed).  It seems to me "taps" ought to be OK also.

[pat]

You beat me to it, ensiform and Tom. I noticed the discrepancy between pants and taps yesterday. Both can be plurals formed by adding 's', both are third person singular verbs yet only one is allowed.

Another point that occurred to me a couple of weeks ago was whether plurals such as axes should be allowed. Although it's a simple plural of axe it's also the plural of axis, requiring more than just an 's' on the end. I know it's currently disallowed for that very reason but might there be an argument for allowing plurals of this type? Not that I can think of any other offhand.

[technomc]

The issue of my 'pants' keeps coming up again and again....

I'm sure Viral only let it through after months of nagging and a survey...

Pants is in not as a dog pants when it's hot, but the kind you wear...after all i wear a pair of pants....not a pair of pant.

I'm sure a very well thought out and thoroughly researched reply will be forthcoming...

[Alan W]

Most times when pants is a possible word in a puzzle - like yesterday - I myself fail to play it. I'm sure it's a psychological block resulting from the harrowing ordeal of past plural debates. Nevertheless, I will respond to the taps suggestion in due course.

[technomc]

I'm sorry Viral.....go and lie down...

[anonsi]

T your pants are quite troublesome.  Perhaps you should just go pantsless from here on out to avoid any further disruption.

[pat]

You mean she doesn't already?

[anonsi]

As often as she talks about them you'd think she doesn't. But perhaps it's all just a clever ruse to get by with going pantsless and still appear...decorous.

[technomc]

Nothing wrong with commando...or thongs...

[Alan W]

Words like this have a long history in Chihuahua, Tom. At one time I was swayed by reasoning similar to yours, and willing to accept any word ending in S which had a usage where there was no corresponding singular word, even where there were other usages as a conventional plural. At this time I agreed to accept hives (the disease) and divers (several). However, subsequent discussion about words for items of apparel caused me to change my mind. (As a result, hives and divers were not added to the list.) A search on "plurals" should lead you to several threads discussing these issues. Incidentally, threads is another one of those words, as an informal term for clothes. When someone says, "Nice threads!" you don't reply, "Thanks. Which thread do you like best?"

The approach I've been following for some time is to look at each case individually, and try to weigh up the relative familiarity of different meanings of a word. I conclude that most people seeing hives would think of structures housing bees, and most people seeing divers would think of those who engage in various aquatic pursuits. Pants is probably a borderline case, but as T says, I eventually gave in to relentless pressure.

I did actually give taps as an example, in this post, of words that I felt should not be accepted. A look in the dictionary reveals that tap has a surprising number of meanings, all of which can have an S appended to make a plural or verb inflection. I'm sure most people seeing the word taps would think of taps on the shoulder, dripping taps, phone taps, etc. Especially people outside the US, since it seems the military usage is specific to that country, but even in America, I think the military sense is strongly outweighed by other senses. (The Corpus of Contemporary American English has over 1600 occurrences of taps. I scanned the first 100, and there seemed to be only 2 instances of the military meaning.)

I can see that allowing pants and not taps will seem inconsistent to some players, but I fear that more people would perceive inconsistency if I allowed words like taps. Players who don't know of the military signal, or just don't think of it, will be wondering why taps is permitted while, say, pats is not.

[pat]

Another thoughtful and reasoned response, Alan. I know your word is final but I have to say I disagree with you on this one. The most striking example amongst those you mention as not being allowed is hives, a word I would have thought well known as a disease. In fact if someone said the word to me, the disease would come to mind rather than multiple bee-houses. Is it right that a word should be excluded simply because it has the 'misfortune' to end in 's', thus making it the same word as a plural of another noun or verb part?

Whatever rules you have there will always be inconsistencies, and those inconsistencies will always be brought to your attention by someone or other. I think you're right to consider each word individually, but some of those currently not allowed should, I feel, be treated in the same way as techno's pants!

[TRex]

I conclude that most people seeing hives would think of structures housing bees, and most people seeing divers would think of those who engage in various aquatic pursuits.

I know you qualified it with 'most people', Alan, but just as Pat's first reaction to hives is the medical condition, my first reaction to divers was
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past ...

But as Pat wrote, '[w]hatever rules you have there will always be inconsistencies' and you won't be able to make everyone happy. But I'm sure I speak for many here when I write that we still enjoy the game and are very appreciative of all your work to make it possible.

[pat]

But I'm sure I speak for many here when I write that we still enjoy the game and are very appreciative of all your work to make it possible.

I concur with that!

[birdy]

Ditto!